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Because Money Podcast

Catch all six seasons (but no movie) of the beloved podcast Because Money here.

Season Six: January - March 2020, with co-hosts John Robertson and Chris Enns

Season Five: October 2018 - June 2019, with co-hosts John Robertson and Chris Enns

Season Four: September 2017 - April 2018, with co-hosts Kate Smalley, John Robertson, and Chris Enns

Season Three: October 2016 - May 2017, with co-hosts John Robertson and Chris Enns

Season Two: September 2015 - March 2016, with co-hosts Jackson Middleton and Kyle Prevost

Season One: November 2013 - February 2015, with co-hosts Jackson Middleton and Robb Engen

An investor’s guide to robo-advisors 2018

Originally published in MoneySense on April 29, 2018

When robo-advisors first burst on the scene a few years ago, they threatened to replace human advisors in situations where not much human help was needed. If you wanted more extensive human advice, you still had to pay up to go with a conventional advisor.

Now there’s a formidable new trend emerging. Increasingly, robo-advisors are teaming up with human advisors in new and creative ways to provide “hybrid” combinations that achieve the best of both worlds.

You get easy digital access and efficiency combined with whatever level of human expertise you need. You can expect to pay less in fees compared to amounts charged by conventional advisors. But often you also get more value from the advice because it can be concentrated where you need it most.

“Hybrid is where the future is going and everyone is converging into it,” says Kendra Thompson, global lead for wealth management at consultancy firm Accenture. Of course, the trend is still in its early stages and you will only see hints of it in today’s robo-advisor offerings.

It’s easy to get the misleading impression that robo-advisors are antagonistic rivals to human advisors. Fueling that impression are hard-hitting ads by robo-advisor Questrade Portfolio IQ, where everyday Canadian investors grill their sleazy-looking conventional advisors about why their fees are so high and their returns are so low.

But it’s clear that algorithms won’t replace quality human advice in more complex or nuanced situations, at least any time soon. If you need a comprehensive financial plan or want help coping with a market meltdown, you’re likely to want to turn to a trusted human advisor with high levels of financial expertise but also human qualities like communication skills and empathy.

Key to the hybrid partnership is freeing up good advisors to provide value-added advice while using technology to: provide transparent online account access across multiple devices, streamline administration, and take care of routine transactions like rebalancing. Most robo-advisors recognize their own limitations and see good human advisors as potential partners. “We think advisors who are delivering value will continue to thrive,” says Wealthsimple CEO Michael Katchen.

Humanizing the robos

The hybrid trend has several aspects. Firstly, some robo-advisors themselves are adding more human services like basic financial planning and dedicated human advisors. But the larger, long-term trend is robo-advisors and other fintech companies teaming up with outside financial planners and conventional advisory firms in just about every segment of the investment advice business.

Of course, the trend is still in its early days and much of the activity is behind the scenes. Nonetheless, Thompson points to a flurry of deals and huge sums of money that the major financial institutions are pouring into this area to show that the trend is unmistakable. “The type of transformation that is going on is unprecedented,” says Thompson. “The dialogue of robos vs. humans or old vs. new really misses the richness of what’s going on, which is an entire industry re-inventing itself to be more modern, more in line with what investors want to pay for, and to be more in line with the consumer experiences of today.”

In one of the simpler forms of hybrid collaborations, independent financial planners are referring investments to a robo-advisor while providing over-all financial planning services. Typically the financial planner has online digital “dashboard” access to the account and incorporates portfolio information into their financial plans. While the robo-advisor retains full responsibility for managing the investments and matching the client to the appropriate portfolio, the financial planner might fill the role of trusted human advisor who can prepare an in-depth financial plan but also counsel clients about all aspects of their finances.

That might include, for example, talking clients through their jitters during a market correction. The robo-advisor typically discounts their rates compared to what they charge regular clients because of reduced need for the robo-advisor’s services. With client permission, the robo-advisor may draw the planner’s fees from the robo-advisor investment account and remit them to the planner. Already hundreds of financial planners are working with robo-advisors in this way or something similar. (We’ll describe an example in a minute.)

But there is much more to the hybrid trend than that. At a more complex but profound level, robo-advisors and other fintech companies are providing much of the technology to help major financial institutions transform their conventional advice businesses. These partnerships range from situations where robo-advisors provide their complete investment platform, process, portfolio design, and brand to other “white label” situations where the robo-advisor only provides the underlying technology and platform and the conventional financial institution partner does the rest.

Because these transformations are so large and complex, they will take time and often start small with pilot programs in niche areas of the business, but no one doubts their potential. “Our vision is to become the platform of choice,” says Randy Cass, CEO of Nest Wealth, a robo-advisor in which National Bank Financial has a major investment.

Nest Wealth is partnering with National Bank Financial to introduce hybrid capabilities at the bank and has also cut hybrid-type deals with three other conventional advisory firms. Meanwhile, the Bank of Montreal’s BMO SmartFolio robo-advisor offering is available alongside full-service brokerage accounts in its BMO Nesbitt Burns division. In the right client situation, BMO SmartFolio allows brokers to spend less time on administration and reviewing client accounts, and more time on value-added activities like financial planning and estate planning, says Silvio Stroescu, head of digital investing at BMO Financial Group.

And while Wealthsimple hasn’t publicly specified how it might help transform Power Financial Corp.’s diversified financial services empire, the fact that Power Financial has acquired a controlling stake in Wealthsimple at least indicates interest if not intent. Other robo-advisors such as Invisor, Justwealth and WealthBar have also announced hybrid deals of varying size and significance.

Not just for millennials

Meanwhile the robo-advisor’s traditional direct-to-consumer offering continues to evolve. Many of the features that were novel a few years ago are more commonplace today. That includes:

  • digital access and communication through multiple devices;

  • construction of largely passive portfolios using low-cost ETFs;

  • online questionnaires that match new clients to the most appropriate portfolios for their circumstances;

  • paperless account initiation or “onboarding” process;

  • automated rebalancing of portfolios; and

  • availability (in most cases) of highly qualified portfolio managers working to a fiduciary standard to step in and provide limited human advice when needed.

Robo-advisors were originally thought to appeal particularly to millennials because of the demographic’s early embrace of digital technology, but the focus has shifted more towards older investors with larger balances. While some robo-advisors have gone after an older clientel from the get-go, others have more recently added features that are likely to have particular appeal to this group, like basic financial planning, tax-loss selling and portfolio managers dedicated to specific clients.

Wealthsimple

Wealthsimple* is the industry market share leader and millennial robo-advisor of choice with its cool marketing vibe, youthful executives, and socially responsible investing (SRI) options. But it introduced Wealthsimple Black for clients with balances over $100,000, providing lower fees, tax-loss harvesting and basic financial planning.

CEO Katchen says that Wealthsimple Black is the fastest growing segment of its business and that the firm has seen its average over-all client age shift to 34 from 29 a few years ago.

The company has more than 80 per cent of Canadian robo-advisor users as clients, according to Strategic Insights data cited by the company. It has also expanded to the U.S. and Britain. Wealthsimple announced in March that it had reached $2 billion in client assets and 65,000 clients, with the “majority” in Canada. It is the only Canadian robo-advisor to release client figures.

WealthBar

WealthBar has always designed portfolios to generate cash flow and reduce volatily, features of particular appeal to older investors. But it has added services like dedicated advisors and basic financial planning reviews by certified financial planners.

Its average client age now is about 48, says WealthBar CEO Tea Nicola. In addition to ETF-based portfolios, WealthBar also offers pooled funds in specialized asset classes like real estate, a product usually only available to large account clients at conventional advisors. “We democratize a high net wealth way of investing,” says Nicola.

Justwealth

Justwealth strives to appeal to older investors with larger balances by taking a relatively sophisticated approach to managing portfolios.

Instead of providing six to 10 set portfolio options, which is typical, it provides 65. That allows it, for example, to offer distinct non-registered portfolios which use tax-advantaged ETFs and emphasize asset classes with relatively favorable tax treatment.

Furthermore, it provides personalized (rather than robotic) tax loss harvesting. Justwealth also offers RESP target date portfolios that become more conservative as the beneficiary gets closer to needing the funds in university. Justwealth’s average client age is the mid-40s, says President Andrew Kirkland.

Nest Wealth

Nest Wealth has always gone after an older, richer demographic from the get-go with a fee structure that makes it comparatively cheap for exceptionally large accounts.

Its average age is 47. Says Nest Wealth CEO Randy Cass: “We were always thinking those that were suffering the most pain weren’t the ones who had one, two, three thousand dollars and were just starting out, but were the ones who had 50,000, 100,000, 200,000 or more dollars and were getting defaulted into really high fee products that weren’t in their best interest.”

Robo-advisors are also adding new products to broaden their appeal. Invisor uses a goals-based approach with tracking against goals for investments, but uses much of the same information to also identify insurance needs. Life insurance can then be obtained online, while the company is also developing online capabilities for critical illness and disability insurance (which are currently offered offline). “It’s all related,” says Invisor CEO Pramod Udiaver.

In April, Wealthsimple introduced a high-interest savings account paying an impressive 1.7% annualized interest (not an introductory rate) with no minimum account balance and no withdrawal fees. Several robo-advisors are going after group RRSPs for small and medium businesses.

In the first three months of 2018, Nest Wealth signed up 200 employers after launching group RRSPs with three corporate partners. WealthBar also offers insurance and has a group RRSP offering with about two dozen employers. While robo-advisor benefits aren’t just about costs, low fees are obviously a huge part of their appeal.

Pretty much every robo-advisor does a fee comparison on their website which shows you can save a bundle in fees compared to investing with a conventional advisor using mutual funds. But comparing regular robo-advisor offerings that provide very limited advice with full-service mutual fund advisors isn’t an apples-to-apples comparison since the advice level isn’t generally comparable.

(As a side note, some robo-advisors do these fee comparisons without counting the fees embedded in the ETFs they use, which is misleading.)

Value in hybrids

But the thing about the new hybrid options is it allows you to save fees when the level of advice is comparable or maybe even higher compared to conventional advice. To see how, consider the example of Sandi Martin, an advice only certified financial planner with Spring Financial Planning, who prepares comprehensive financial plans for clients nationwide from Gravenhurst, Ontario, and who is also co-host of the Because Money podcast. In her financial planning work, she collaborates with her client’s investments advisor, who manages the investments.

While she happily works with whichever investments advisor her clients use, she also maintains a list of recommended robo-advisors and low-fee conventional advisors for clients to choose from if they’re looking to make a change. (While some robo-advisors provide basic financial planning, expect comprehensive financial plans like the ones prepared by Martin will go into far greater depth.)

Her recommended list includes robo-advisors Wealthsimple, Nest Wealth, and Justwealth, as well as low-fee conventional firms like Steadyhand, and Leith Wheeler.

Robo-advisors are usually willing to collect the planner’s fees for them from the investment account, but Martin chooses to bill clients directly for her services. While her fees vary according to client needs, Martin typically charges about $3,750 plus HST to prepare a comprehensive financial plan with a few years of follow-up monitoring and check-ins for a middle class couple with kids and reasonably straightforward planning needs.

That seems like a big cheque to write, but clients don’t usually need a comprehensive financial plan every year, so in many cases it’s reasonable to think of its value as being spread notionally over, say, four years. That results in an annualized expense of $1,060 or 0.35% of assets once HST is incorporated.

Robo-advisor fees including HST amount to $1,188 or 0.40% of assets (using Wealthsimple fees as an example). The fees embedded in ETFs used by Wealthsimple average about $750 a year or 0.25%. That brings the all-in annual fees for financial planning and investment management to about $3,000 a year or 1.0% of assets in this example. By comparison, a mutual fund advisor typically charges around 2.2% of assets per year on a balanced account, which works out in this case to $6,600 in actual dollars, or more than twice as much. Some mutual fund advisors give great financial advice and provide lots of value; others not so much.

Some provide regular, well-constructed comprehensive financial plans as part of their services; others not at all. But the bottom line is the average mutual fund advisor is going be very hard pressed to provide equal value for the $6,600 in annual fees that they typically charge for a middle class couple like this compared to the value that Sandi Martin teamed with a robo-advisor can provide for $3,000 a year.

And that is pretty clear evidence as to why the hybrid approach appears poised to transform the investment industry.

Investment Executive: Serving the Middle Market

Originally published on December 22, 2016 in Investment Executive magazine

Sandi Martin offers fee-only planning services to a far-flung base of clients from the comfort of her home in Ontario’s picturesque cottage country

Sandi Martin truly likes “regular people.” So, when she decided to start up her independent practice, she knew those people were the type of client she wanted to help with their financial planning needs.

There are not many advisors available for clients who have competing financial priorities and don’t always have the cash to cover all of those needs, says Martin, founder of Spring Personal Finance in Gravenhurst, Ont.

Martin’s independent practice is the result of an ambition she developed early in her career in financial services. After graduating from York University in Toronto, Martin began working as a personal banker in 2005 at a retail branch of Toronto-based Canadian Imperial Bank of Commerce (CIBC) in nearby Newmarket, Ont. There, she became interested in helping middle-class Canadians reach their long-term financial goals. Her responsibilities included handling her clients’ investment and borrowing needs. However, the retail banking emphasis on the selling of products was not compatible with the type of service Martin wanted to provide.

“You’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg when all you’re talking about is someone’s mortgage renewal,” Martin says. “That’s only one piece, and sometimes people don’t know what all of the other pieces are and how they fit together.”

Martin and her husband, Seth, were determined to move back to Martin’s hometown of Gravenhurst, north of Newmarket. So, when a position opened up at a CIBC branch in Huntsville in 2007, Martin jumped at the chance to relocate.

Comprehensive planning

Driven by a desire to provide a more comprehensive level of financial planning, Martin left the bank on Dec. 31, 2012, and registered her independent business as an advice-only planner on Jan. 1, 2013.

Martin saw immediate interest in the advice-only planning she wanted to provide. A consumer business publication had begun to publicize advice-only planning through its stories and included her name in its national directory of advice-only planners. She also became acquainted with a popular personal finance blogger who had asked Martin to contribute to his site, which further increased her exposure. Within two months of starting her business, Martin landed her first client.

Martin has clients in Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and British Columbia, and she prepared 60 financial plans in 2016. She typically works with six clients at any given time – not counting retainer clients and new clients in the discovery stage.

Martin’s ability to attract clients is due in part to being among the minority of advisors who provide financial services in this way, she says: “It is a pretty small pool of people who can work with anybody across the country on an advice-only basis.”

Martin appeals to middle-market clients because she understands that she has to offer flexibility – which is a key component in her service offering.

Her clients can choose how much advice they require, so pricing varies accordingly. Martin has three tiers of service: an hourly fee for clients who simply want to ask a few questions; a project fee for individuals who would like a documented financial plan; and a retainer fee for clients who want ongoing advice.

All fees and descriptions of Martin’s services are available on her website, which reinforces her emphasis on the importance of full transparency regarding her fees.

“The kind of clients that I want to work with typically received their advice for free [in the past],” Martin says. “If they can accept the fees and then we talk, I think that’s a more efficient use of everyone’s time.”

Thanks to the power of technology, Martin serves clients across the country from her home office. Clients can choose how and when they want to “meet” with Martin, who always strives to make her meetings as convenient for clients as the time slots are for her. She conducts meetings by phone or through online video calling at times that are mutually beneficial.

No sales of products

Martin isn’t registered to sell securities of any kind anymore – and she prefers to work that way. She believes the service of providing financial advice should remain distinct from the selling of products. She recently wrote her certified financial planner examination and is awaiting the results.

Martin’s commitment to transparency is not limited to her fee structure. Just as she wants to get to know her clients and understand their priorities, she is very clear with clients about who she is, what she believes in and what makes her laugh. Martin has a lively sense of humour and any conversation with her is likely to be punctuated with laughter and self-deprecating humour.

“I’m not ever going to have perfect hair and be in a suit and act professional all of the time,” Martin says. “I want to act with professional dignity, but that doesn’t mean not being myself.”

Martin’s efforts to avoid the “sober bank manager” stereotype work well with her client base. That image of the serious banking professional can intimidate clients and make them nervous about asking questions, she says.

Educating middle-class clients about the facets of personal finance has become a mission for Martin, who uses social media, a newsletter and podcasting to share her thoughts and resources on these matters.

Martin is one of the hosts of the Because Money podcast, which is in its third season (more than 40 episodes in total) and involves interviews with personal finance bloggers and journalists. The podcasts, which run approximately 30 minutes, cover topics such as the distinctions among investment products, budgeting and the regulation of financial advice.

“I hope that we can make people at least brush up against the topic [of regulation], so that the next time they hear about it, it’s slightly familiar,” Martin says, “so that people who have a vested interest in keeping the status quo or keeping investors from knowing what’s going on can’t do that quite as successfully.”

Martin may seem like a one-person show, but she works closely with other professionals. She co-hosts the current season of Because Money with Chris Enns, a fee-only planner in Toronto, and John Robertson, a financial writer and educator, also in Toronto, whose work focuses on do-it-yourself investing. In addition, Robertson is her partner in the development of an online calculator that allows clients to compare the costs of various robo-advisors.

Martin receives guidance and financial planning help from her mentor, Julia Chung, a fee- only planner in South Surrey, B.C. The two are exploring the possibility of entering into a formal business partnership this year, Martin says.

Comfort of home

Martin, age 37, gets to execute her business model from the comfort of her home in Gravenhurst, a picturesque town of fewer than 15,000 people within the Muskoka District Municipality, which is famous for its Nature trails and lakeside living.

“Ten years ago, if you wanted to be an [advice-only] financial planner or you wanted to do any service-based professional job as your own boss, you needed to be in a population centre that could support it. But, thanks, Internet!” she says with a laugh.

The way in which Martin runs her business has enabled her to spend more time with her husband and their children, Max, 8; Oscar, 6; and Lucy, 4. The Martins can be found volunteering at their children’s school during the academic year and enjoying Lake Muskoka with the kids in the summer.

“I never liked the idea of owing my allegiance and my nine-to-five, evenings and some weekends to some company that doesn’t care if I’m at home for supper,” Martin says. “I like being able to stop in the middle of my day if I have to and go pick my kids up at school if they’re sick. [That lifestyle] is non-negotiable now.”

Featured In, MediaSandi Martin
Canadian Couch Potato: Planning vs. Investing

Originally published on the Canadian Couch Potato on December 15, 2016

This interview with friend and colleague Dan Bortolotti at the beginning of his (now ended) Canadian Couch Potato podcast gets into the important (and frequently misunderstood) differences between financial planning and investment management, why it’s important for plans need to come before products, and the growing presence of robo-advisors in Canada.

Listen to the full episode below.

Featured In, MediaSandi Martin